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	<title>Comments on: National Language(s)</title>
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	<link>http://www.rockinginhakata.com/2008/07/16/435/</link>
	<description>Deas Richardson is currently living as a JET and teaching English in the middle of the Seto Inland Sea, a gorgeous part of Japan.</description>
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		<title>By: On mandatory second-language education &#124; VictoryManual.com</title>
		<link>http://www.rockinginhakata.com/2008/07/16/435/comment-page-1/#comment-20948</link>
		<dc:creator>On mandatory second-language education &#124; VictoryManual.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockinginhakata.com/?p=435#comment-20948</guid>
		<description>[...] having an opinion on a policy of mandatory second-language education. Deas from rockinginhakata.com commented on bilingualism (particularly of English and Spanish in the States), but I want to take one step back, towards [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] having an opinion on a policy of mandatory second-language education. Deas from rockinginhakata.com commented on bilingualism (particularly of English and Spanish in the States), but I want to take one step back, towards [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Deas</title>
		<link>http://www.rockinginhakata.com/2008/07/16/435/comment-page-1/#comment-10329</link>
		<dc:creator>Deas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 07:54:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockinginhakata.com/?p=435#comment-10329</guid>
		<description>Shaun - I don&#039;t think he (Jonadab, to whom I am assuming you&#039;re responding) meant to come off quite the way you interpreted. I mean, I don&#039;t know, but I&#039;m giving him the benefit of the doubt. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shaun &#8211; I don&#8217;t think he (Jonadab, to whom I am assuming you&#8217;re responding) meant to come off quite the way you interpreted. I mean, I don&#8217;t know, but I&#8217;m giving him the benefit of the doubt. <img src='http://www.rockinginhakata.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Shaun</title>
		<link>http://www.rockinginhakata.com/2008/07/16/435/comment-page-1/#comment-10259</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 11:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockinginhakata.com/?p=435#comment-10259</guid>
		<description>Just wanted to add something.
While I chose French over Spanish in Secondary School (out of a whole 2 choices), French was certainly the less logical choice. Spanish is the most commonly taught language (at least for the Southern and Western states) for very good reasons. Given that it is based off of Latin (and English is Germanic-mixed-with-borrowed concepts from many languages), its grammar, conjugation, and vocab are all quite different, as well as being ONE OF THE MOST GLOBALLY SPOKEN LANGUAGES IN THE WORLD. More than half of the American continent and surrounding islands also use it, but I guess they are too &quot;3rd-world&quot; to care about?
How many countries have a large group of Japanese speakers? Hell, Cantonese language groups outnumber Mandarin ones outside of ROC/PROC, yet I&#039;m getting a feeling that these are more interesting and useful than Spanish (or it&#039;s cousin Portuguese, spoken by hundreds of millions in one of the most promising economies in the world...).

Really sorry for ranting on your blog Deas, I&#039;ll stop before I make this another essay. I have no interest in learning Spanish now, but certainly not because it&#039;s &quot;Not particularly interesting or useful... for native English speakers&quot; and completely because of my geographical location and future prospects. If anything, my friends who did learn Spanish formed lasting friendships with the fairly segregated and large Mexican community, not by learning Russian or some random language in vogue.
That bitch-slap of Spanish/Latin American language, culture, and history (indirect as it was) rubbed me the wrong way, seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just wanted to add something.<br />
While I chose French over Spanish in Secondary School (out of a whole 2 choices), French was certainly the less logical choice. Spanish is the most commonly taught language (at least for the Southern and Western states) for very good reasons. Given that it is based off of Latin (and English is Germanic-mixed-with-borrowed concepts from many languages), its grammar, conjugation, and vocab are all quite different, as well as being ONE OF THE MOST GLOBALLY SPOKEN LANGUAGES IN THE WORLD. More than half of the American continent and surrounding islands also use it, but I guess they are too &#8220;3rd-world&#8221; to care about?<br />
How many countries have a large group of Japanese speakers? Hell, Cantonese language groups outnumber Mandarin ones outside of ROC/PROC, yet I&#8217;m getting a feeling that these are more interesting and useful than Spanish (or it&#8217;s cousin Portuguese, spoken by hundreds of millions in one of the most promising economies in the world&#8230;).</p>
<p>Really sorry for ranting on your blog Deas, I&#8217;ll stop before I make this another essay. I have no interest in learning Spanish now, but certainly not because it&#8217;s &#8220;Not particularly interesting or useful&#8230; for native English speakers&#8221; and completely because of my geographical location and future prospects. If anything, my friends who did learn Spanish formed lasting friendships with the fairly segregated and large Mexican community, not by learning Russian or some random language in vogue.<br />
That bitch-slap of Spanish/Latin American language, culture, and history (indirect as it was) rubbed me the wrong way, seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: Deas</title>
		<link>http://www.rockinginhakata.com/2008/07/16/435/comment-page-1/#comment-9677</link>
		<dc:creator>Deas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 05:05:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockinginhakata.com/?p=435#comment-9677</guid>
		<description>Jonadab - thanks for your comments, and welcome to the blog! I would say that it doesn&#039;t bother me as much as it bothers you when foreign people can speak English. Many countries speak English to start with, and the economic reality (at least until this point in time....sigh) has made it more viable for people to learn English than for Americans to learn other language. That&#039;s not to say that they shouldn&#039;t, but just to emphasize that I am not particularly bothered by it. Also, your answer is more related to foreign language acquisition by American students...not to the purposeful transition to a multilingual coexistent population. Any thoughts on that aspect?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonadab &#8211; thanks for your comments, and welcome to the blog! I would say that it doesn&#8217;t bother me as much as it bothers you when foreign people can speak English. Many countries speak English to start with, and the economic reality (at least until this point in time&#8230;.sigh) has made it more viable for people to learn English than for Americans to learn other language. That&#8217;s not to say that they shouldn&#8217;t, but just to emphasize that I am not particularly bothered by it. Also, your answer is more related to foreign language acquisition by American students&#8230;not to the purposeful transition to a multilingual coexistent population. Any thoughts on that aspect?</p>
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		<title>By: Jonadab the Unsightly One</title>
		<link>http://www.rockinginhakata.com/2008/07/16/435/comment-page-1/#comment-9604</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonadab the Unsightly One</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 16:32:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockinginhakata.com/?p=435#comment-9604</guid>
		<description>On the one hand, I strongly agree that more people should be making the effort to learn a second language.  Among other things, I don&#039;t think you can really properly understand even the grammar of your first language until you&#039;ve learned another one.  There are plenty of other good reasons as well, which for the sake of brevity I will leave unstated for now.  So we agree there, learning a second language is good.  Teaching a second language to your child is good.

On the other hand, I strongly disagree with the implicit assumption that if Americans are going to learn a second language it&#039;s probably going to be Spanish.  That&#039;s a very myopic view.  Spanish is, as languages go, not a particularly useful or interesting choice of second language for a native English speaker.  For one thing, it&#039;s so similar to English, that it really doesn&#039;t teach you that much about languages to learn it.  It has the same basic word order as English, extremely similar grammar,  even more similar writing system, practically every word a cognate, and so on and so forth.  On top of that, there&#039;s practically no interesting literature written in it.  (Yes, there&#039;s Don Quixote.  Now, name something else.)  Frankly it&#039;s just a poor choice all around, for most Americans, unless your main goal is for us to be able to chat it up with first-generation immigrants who don&#039;t speak English, and I don&#039;t think that&#039;s a particularly important goal.  As the senator says, immigrants will learn English, and furthermore (this he does not say, but I will) if they don&#039;t bother, it&#039;s not our problem; it&#039;s theirs.

Not that there aren&#039;t good reasons to learn Spanish.  For some people, there are.  I mean, say you want to travel in South America, for instance.  That would make Spanish a logical choice.  But for most people I&#039;d say almost any other language would be a better choice.  You could learn Russian, or Greek, or Sanskrit, or Japanese...  there are dozens of good choices.  I suppose it&#039;s possible that when he says, &quot;You need to make sure your child can speak Spanish&quot;, he really means any foreign language.  I&#039;d like to think that&#039;s what he means.  But that&#039;s sure not how it comes across.

OTOH, I agree with what he says about Americans going abroad and 99% of the time not speaking the language, while almost all of the foreigners who come here speak ours.  That, to me, is very embarrassing.

Jonadab the Unsightly Ones last blog post was: &lt;a href=&quot;http://mistersanity.blogspot.com/2008/09/bad-analogies-101.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bad Analogies 101&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the one hand, I strongly agree that more people should be making the effort to learn a second language.  Among other things, I don&#8217;t think you can really properly understand even the grammar of your first language until you&#8217;ve learned another one.  There are plenty of other good reasons as well, which for the sake of brevity I will leave unstated for now.  So we agree there, learning a second language is good.  Teaching a second language to your child is good.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I strongly disagree with the implicit assumption that if Americans are going to learn a second language it&#8217;s probably going to be Spanish.  That&#8217;s a very myopic view.  Spanish is, as languages go, not a particularly useful or interesting choice of second language for a native English speaker.  For one thing, it&#8217;s so similar to English, that it really doesn&#8217;t teach you that much about languages to learn it.  It has the same basic word order as English, extremely similar grammar,  even more similar writing system, practically every word a cognate, and so on and so forth.  On top of that, there&#8217;s practically no interesting literature written in it.  (Yes, there&#8217;s Don Quixote.  Now, name something else.)  Frankly it&#8217;s just a poor choice all around, for most Americans, unless your main goal is for us to be able to chat it up with first-generation immigrants who don&#8217;t speak English, and I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s a particularly important goal.  As the senator says, immigrants will learn English, and furthermore (this he does not say, but I will) if they don&#8217;t bother, it&#8217;s not our problem; it&#8217;s theirs.</p>
<p>Not that there aren&#8217;t good reasons to learn Spanish.  For some people, there are.  I mean, say you want to travel in South America, for instance.  That would make Spanish a logical choice.  But for most people I&#8217;d say almost any other language would be a better choice.  You could learn Russian, or Greek, or Sanskrit, or Japanese&#8230;  there are dozens of good choices.  I suppose it&#8217;s possible that when he says, &#8220;You need to make sure your child can speak Spanish&#8221;, he really means any foreign language.  I&#8217;d like to think that&#8217;s what he means.  But that&#8217;s sure not how it comes across.</p>
<p>OTOH, I agree with what he says about Americans going abroad and 99% of the time not speaking the language, while almost all of the foreigners who come here speak ours.  That, to me, is very embarrassing.</p>
<p>Jonadab the Unsightly Ones last blog post was: <a href="http://mistersanity.blogspot.com/2008/09/bad-analogies-101.html" rel="nofollow">Bad Analogies 101</a></p>
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		<title>By: Shaun</title>
		<link>http://www.rockinginhakata.com/2008/07/16/435/comment-page-1/#comment-7703</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 02:49:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockinginhakata.com/?p=435#comment-7703</guid>
		<description>thanks for the compliment. not that necessary, as I figure, if you aren&#039;t going to write something carefully, why bother writing it in the first place?
anyway, I wish I could have put more structure to my comment. Your post, on the surface, talks about Obama&#039;s speech, but there are immigration policies, education policies, issues in ethnic and second-generation identity, economic empowerment, socio-linguistics... also covered by this issue
*sigh* hard to talk about all of it at once.
I&#039;m kinda biased against English-as-mandatory-language through some research I&#039;ve had to make on linguistics, but maybe I&#039;ll find some pro-English education books to change my mind some day...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for the compliment. not that necessary, as I figure, if you aren&#8217;t going to write something carefully, why bother writing it in the first place?<br />
anyway, I wish I could have put more structure to my comment. Your post, on the surface, talks about Obama&#8217;s speech, but there are immigration policies, education policies, issues in ethnic and second-generation identity, economic empowerment, socio-linguistics&#8230; also covered by this issue<br />
*sigh* hard to talk about all of it at once.<br />
I&#8217;m kinda biased against English-as-mandatory-language through some research I&#8217;ve had to make on linguistics, but maybe I&#8217;ll find some pro-English education books to change my mind some day&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Deas</title>
		<link>http://www.rockinginhakata.com/2008/07/16/435/comment-page-1/#comment-7621</link>
		<dc:creator>Deas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 00:18:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockinginhakata.com/?p=435#comment-7621</guid>
		<description>BillyWest - I use that argument for tourism purposes, but I&#039;m pretty steadfastly opposed to a country adjusting to meet a minority&#039;s demands. I&#039;m a firm supporter of assimilation. (Note that I&#039;m not decrying Spanish language education; I&#039;m simply delineating between mandatory education / individual choice in foreign language education / actor / acted upon.) I think cultural sensitivity should work both ways - and not create societal preset preferences for certain subsets of people. You know? I don&#039;t know if I articulated that clearly at all... But it is a salient one, I promise!

Lolcats last blog post was: &lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ICanHasCheezburger/~3/QIMIZy3KT5w/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Da horn on da bus goes&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BillyWest &#8211; I use that argument for tourism purposes, but I&#8217;m pretty steadfastly opposed to a country adjusting to meet a minority&#8217;s demands. I&#8217;m a firm supporter of assimilation. (Note that I&#8217;m not decrying Spanish language education; I&#8217;m simply delineating between mandatory education / individual choice in foreign language education / actor / acted upon.) I think cultural sensitivity should work both ways &#8211; and not create societal preset preferences for certain subsets of people. You know? I don&#8217;t know if I articulated that clearly at all&#8230; But it is a salient one, I promise!</p>
<p>Lolcats last blog post was: <a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ICanHasCheezburger/~3/QIMIZy3KT5w/" rel="nofollow">Da horn on da bus goes</a></p>
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		<title>By: billywest</title>
		<link>http://www.rockinginhakata.com/2008/07/16/435/comment-page-1/#comment-7600</link>
		<dc:creator>billywest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 15:51:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockinginhakata.com/?p=435#comment-7600</guid>
		<description>Since the Hispanic population is growing so rapidly in the U.S., I see it as only a good thing to require kids to study Spanish in school, if not for giving them a second language, at least for making them a bit more culturally sensitive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since the Hispanic population is growing so rapidly in the U.S., I see it as only a good thing to require kids to study Spanish in school, if not for giving them a second language, at least for making them a bit more culturally sensitive.</p>
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		<title>By: Deas</title>
		<link>http://www.rockinginhakata.com/2008/07/16/435/comment-page-1/#comment-7384</link>
		<dc:creator>Deas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockinginhakata.com/?p=435#comment-7384</guid>
		<description>Shaun - thanks for a really wonderful, well thought out comment. I think we agree on most of this topic, or at least on more than we disagree about. Anyway, I really appreciate your taking the time to write this out. It&#039;s very well put and easy to understand. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shaun &#8211; thanks for a really wonderful, well thought out comment. I think we agree on most of this topic, or at least on more than we disagree about. Anyway, I really appreciate your taking the time to write this out. It&#8217;s very well put and easy to understand. <img src='http://www.rockinginhakata.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Shaun</title>
		<link>http://www.rockinginhakata.com/2008/07/16/435/comment-page-1/#comment-7374</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 06:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockinginhakata.com/?p=435#comment-7374</guid>
		<description>I really don&#039;t have the time to comment throughly on this (rushing to make another presentation), but it&#039;s an issue dear to me, so I&#039;ll try my best in short.
First I don&#039;t wholly disagree with Obama&#039;s (or blue&#039;s) comments. They come from their respective backgrounds, as opinions usually go.The former seems to have a built up an annoyance to common thinking about race relations, and the latter seems to have built a cynical, persecution complex to protect himself from larger realities. 
Anyway, Obama said what he said, but I doubt he was promoting traditional bilingualism in the states. The lack of multiple-language ability and education in the US is well documented, and I can only guess he wanted to emphasize that uncommonly-said political point instead of beating the quasi-racist &quot;English is the only language of America&quot; dead horse.
No country needs society-wide bilingualism. Many areas have high-concentrations of bilinguals (Malaysia, Switzerland, Hawaii, any region bordering two states in the world...), and that happened sometimes despite government policy (Malaysia censoring &quot;non-Mandarin&quot; Chinese, etc).  And any school subject is not going to be learned and retained by a student who does not see or need the utility of it. I learned French for a couple years, and loved it (although hated the impracticality of the teaching method), but ultimately, I wasn&#039;t going to France anytime soon, no one near me spoke it, and I just needed to get through it so I could graduate.
I don&#039;t believe the attitudes of Japanese students are that different from my school days.

Obama was getting at the lack of necessity to emphasize a &quot;Only English&quot; policy, as those who need it to survive in society will learn it naturally. I also believe (or want to believe) he wanted to show that second, third generation immigrants often can&#039;t speak with their parents and grandparents, and don&#039;t recognize their own culture or history - thus we should worry about children of immigrants not being able to speak Spanish, etc. 
Forcing immigrants to assimilate linguistically into society creates a &quot;double-bind&quot; situation where they are damned economically if they seclude themselves from majority society, or oppositely, are damned by a loss of culture and communication to family (causes family strife often, if you can imagine) 
as well as a recurring problem that - as they spend so much time  making themselves like a &quot;native speaker&quot; they lose time to study meteorology, physics, or whatever field they wish to enter, and can be easily outspoken by those who were native speakers from birth and only needed to focus on their own specialty.
...
Some of his comments are going to be called by his campaign &quot;inartful&quot; for sure. But there are a lot of hidden problems with forcing languages and other subject matter that don&#039;t have universal utility. 

BTW, while I believe Japan&#039;s education is fairly hopeless as long as it continues emphasizing nationwide &quot;standard&quot; curriculum and text, and that will not change until the University exams change (both are changing Japanese-time slooowly) - there are some private and public schools that do give Korean, Chinese, Spanish, and Portuguese options instead of English.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really don&#8217;t have the time to comment throughly on this (rushing to make another presentation), but it&#8217;s an issue dear to me, so I&#8217;ll try my best in short.<br />
First I don&#8217;t wholly disagree with Obama&#8217;s (or blue&#8217;s) comments. They come from their respective backgrounds, as opinions usually go.The former seems to have a built up an annoyance to common thinking about race relations, and the latter seems to have built a cynical, persecution complex to protect himself from larger realities.<br />
Anyway, Obama said what he said, but I doubt he was promoting traditional bilingualism in the states. The lack of multiple-language ability and education in the US is well documented, and I can only guess he wanted to emphasize that uncommonly-said political point instead of beating the quasi-racist &#8220;English is the only language of America&#8221; dead horse.<br />
No country needs society-wide bilingualism. Many areas have high-concentrations of bilinguals (Malaysia, Switzerland, Hawaii, any region bordering two states in the world&#8230;), and that happened sometimes despite government policy (Malaysia censoring &#8220;non-Mandarin&#8221; Chinese, etc).  And any school subject is not going to be learned and retained by a student who does not see or need the utility of it. I learned French for a couple years, and loved it (although hated the impracticality of the teaching method), but ultimately, I wasn&#8217;t going to France anytime soon, no one near me spoke it, and I just needed to get through it so I could graduate.<br />
I don&#8217;t believe the attitudes of Japanese students are that different from my school days.</p>
<p>Obama was getting at the lack of necessity to emphasize a &#8220;Only English&#8221; policy, as those who need it to survive in society will learn it naturally. I also believe (or want to believe) he wanted to show that second, third generation immigrants often can&#8217;t speak with their parents and grandparents, and don&#8217;t recognize their own culture or history &#8211; thus we should worry about children of immigrants not being able to speak Spanish, etc.<br />
Forcing immigrants to assimilate linguistically into society creates a &#8220;double-bind&#8221; situation where they are damned economically if they seclude themselves from majority society, or oppositely, are damned by a loss of culture and communication to family (causes family strife often, if you can imagine)<br />
as well as a recurring problem that &#8211; as they spend so much time  making themselves like a &#8220;native speaker&#8221; they lose time to study meteorology, physics, or whatever field they wish to enter, and can be easily outspoken by those who were native speakers from birth and only needed to focus on their own specialty.<br />
&#8230;<br />
Some of his comments are going to be called by his campaign &#8220;inartful&#8221; for sure. But there are a lot of hidden problems with forcing languages and other subject matter that don&#8217;t have universal utility. </p>
<p>BTW, while I believe Japan&#8217;s education is fairly hopeless as long as it continues emphasizing nationwide &#8220;standard&#8221; curriculum and text, and that will not change until the University exams change (both are changing Japanese-time slooowly) &#8211; there are some private and public schools that do give Korean, Chinese, Spanish, and Portuguese options instead of English.</p>
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